Kathmandu, Anil Mahaju and Diya Kashyap met about a year ago, were attracted towards each other and, after going steady for some time, decided to tie the knot.


The wedding will be solemnised at a little party in Kathmandu Saturday attended by friends and well-wishers - but no relatives.

Anil and Diya are not their real names but the names they have chosen for their future life together. Both the groom and "bride" are men and the wedding will be the first public gay marriage in Nepal where homosexuality is a crime, punishable with a year in prison and a fine.

"I am really excited and happy that they have dared to challenge (traditional) culture and family values, where the whole society is oriented towards heterosexual marriage," says Sunil Pant, president of Blue Diamond Society, Nepal's most prominent gay rights organisation that is offering its premises for the wedding.

"It is very courageous of them and I congratulate them."

As part of a gay rights organisation, Pant knows better than most the perils homosexuals face in Nepal's conservative, patriarchal society. Blue Diamond Society has to routinely bail out gays and transgenders arrested by police on weekends, beaten up, detained without trial and even sexually assaulted inside police stations.

Blue Diamond Society had also informed human rights organisations about the murder of a teenager in southern Nepal, allegedly by his father, after his family discovered he was gay.

About six years ago, two women in the tourist town of Pokhara decided to get "married" in secret. But the local media got hold of the news and the ensuing blaze of publicity resulted in the women's families first throwing them out and then trying to keep them locked up forcibly.

Though the couple came to Kathmandu and tried to start afresh by opening a small grocery, they continue to be harassed by local toughs, including security personnel.

While Anil is a 28-year-old graphics designer, Diya is a 22-year-old working at Blue Diamond Society as an outreach worker counselling on the spread of HIV/AIDS through unsafe sex and other problems faced by the community.

Their wedding, according to Pant, will be a simple, semi-traditional affair in which they will exchange rings and garlands before witnesses, followed by a little feast for the guests.

However, there will be no priests chanting the traditional wedding mantras.

The "revolutionary" wedding takes place at a time Blue Diamond Society and two other organisations, Mitini Nepal and Shakti Samuha, are asking for gay rights to be included in the new constitution of Nepal.

They want changes in the citizenship law where tesrolingis - transgenders - would be recognised as tesrolingis in the citizenship card and other government certificates, which currently have just two genders, male and female.

They also want the fundamental right of equal wage regardless of gender and recognition of marriage or civil union between two individuals regardless of their gender and sexual orientation.


Source: http://www.keralanext.com/news/?id=825758

question:

is there any limit to attraction?


LooTe

Psychological or Psychiatric associations don't say that homosexuality is abnormal. As per them, sexual relationship between two consenting adults is ok.

Hetero or homo relationships are ok if both the partners are adults, their relationship is based on mutual consent, both of them are aware of the consequences of their act and their relationship doesn't pose any harm to other individuals.

Without consent of both parties, even heterosexual relationship can be abnormal. Can u say that heterosexual rape is normal?

Pedophilia is not normal because one of the partners is not mature enough to understand the consequences of the act. So is the case with bestiality. So Rudra Prasad jee, homosexuality I think is very different from pedophilia or bestiality.

N who are u to dictate what two mature and understanding adults should/ should not do between themselves? U were sounding like the Pope or the Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid in ur last post.

Vincent Bodega, are you okay with pedophilia? Using your logic, pedophilia should be legalized as well, as many psychologists would insinuate that it is a genetic condition as well.
Okay, let's think about it for a second. Psychologists have insinuated that since homosexuality is due to a genetic predisposition, they, meaning the homosexuals, cannot be held accountable for their actions. How many of you buy this malarkey? By extension, since psychologists contend that pedophilia may have a genetic basis to it, are we to legalize pedophilia as well, and let them wreak havoc on the very fabric of our society? Only a few decades ago, homosexuality was seen as an anomaly, and the American society in general saw it that way as well. Comparing the homosexual movement to the civil rights movement also seems to be a bit disingenuous. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, while "blackness" is more profound and cannot be described with only a few paragraphs.
Let me pose this question as well: if we are to tolerate homosexuality because it has historically been a part and parcel of our society, or any society for that matter, are we to tolerate pedophilia as well, given that it has always been with us? Should prostitution be legalized as well? How about bestiality? Where are we to draw the line and make the rule that if anybody crosses this line, he should be sent to the hokey-pokey? So, as we can see, this is a very complex issue. Legalizing gay marriage opens a can of worms, as it is obvious that if gay marriage is legalized, other groups will start asking for their rights as well.
So the point here is that even if homosexuality is a genetic predisposition, we, as a community, have the prerogative to ban its practice. Does that mean that it will work? Hell no, but we are at least trying to set moral standards in our community. Why change the status quo if the status quo is working?
Look what's happening in the Netherlands. Only recently, they approved a pedophile political party. It seems to me that the more progress we make, the more backwards we're going. Check out:

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/jul/06071705.html

Yup folks, that's where we are heading. Some day, pedophilia will be legalized if the trend of our times continues. I, for one, do not want my kids to be sexually abused. I say we should not tinker with the status quo. Leave it as it is.

rudra prasad upadhya,

I was waiting for you to bring out the fact that homosexuality was considered a disorder by the APA till few years ago. My question is did it ever cross you mind that may be we should not base our judgement on what APA says?
Another thing you seem be very clingy about is the fear that something bad will happen tomorrow. Mr. pessimist, I think there is a term for that, but it escapes my mind at this moment. How about this? We know we will die tomorrow. Thats more certain than anything and everything you have said and will say. If we are so sure of our deaths, why are we living today? Should we just give up and start making ourselves comfortable in coffins or graves or where we want to be rested? Does that make sense to you?
If you were asking for my judgement, here it is. If two partners can express love and committment in the same way and form, I would accept any form of union, whether that be between a man and a woman, a man and a man, a man and a cow, a man and child or even (if you stomach can digest) a mom and a son. Again, the key thing is be able to express the love for each other in the same way and form.

As i have already said currently the psychological or Psychiatric associations say that sexual relationship between two consenting adults is ok and normal. So no question of pedophilia being normal.

And there may be some genetic predisposition for homosexuality, but it's not entirely genetic. None of the human behaviors can be 100% genetic or genetically inherited. Environmental factors play a very important role in shaping up any human behavior. Behaviors are not simply inherited like genetic diseases.

Mr. Bodega, maybe you don't care about your children's future. I certainly do. As I have already mentioned in one of my posts, there is no guarantee that the fringe groups of today won't become mainstream groups of tomorrow. I think legalizing gay marriage is basically speeding up the rate of depravity. The future of my posterity matters to me. Maybe not to you. But to me it does.

" and a woman, a man and a man, a man and a cow, a man and child or even "

This speaks volumes about you. So, you're okay if a man genuinely loves a cow. Do you realize how asinine this argument sounds?

It seems many people live in heterosexual ghettos and dont know enough about gays. Becuase if they did, talk of incest, zoophilia and pedophilia would not come up. Most gays are normal everyday people who wake up in the morning, brush, take a shower and go to work, log in to their computers, check their email and voicemail, do their work, go out for lunch, and come back home to someone in the evening.

These acts of sexual 'perversion' that are mentioned in the comments above are equally likely to be commited by straights. Infact, it seems most sexual predators are heterosexuals going by what is reported in the news. Why then single out gays?

Most "gays" are "normal" people according to whose standards? Pedophiles may act just as normal besides their sexual orientation. How do you know they aren't "normal everyday people". Priests who have sex with children may act normal by most standards, besides their lust for children. Plus, I really believe that many of these priests are repressed homosexuals. Would a straight man be attracted to a boy?

Preist who have sex with children have them both with boys and girls. Why are you confusing homesexuality with pedophilia? If priests have abused girls, should we, by the same token, ban heterosexual marriages too?

rudra prasad upadhya,

I wrote two sentences before and after that excert you so delicated copied and pasted from my post. Read those again. If you tell me that a cow can express her love to a man in the same way and form that constitutes marriage then you definitely live in a different society than me. Also, if you tell me that a kid can express his or her love towards a man or a woman is the same way or the form that constitutes marriage, you better stop smoking whatever you have been. Because, thats making you lose whatever little you have up there.
I never said I would want your kids to be victims of pedophilia. I am here to voice my solidarity for gay community. Like someone pointed out theres no connection between you fear and the marriage between two gays. If you still live in that fear, youmight as well fear your death and stop living today.

but a straight man can be attracted to an underage girl. then what? first get ur basics right. pedophilia is not a 'sexual orientation'. there is lots of difference between 'sexual orientation' and 'sexual perversion'. just look up their definitions.

" okay if a man genuinely loves a cow", but does the cow genuinely love that man in this relationship? it would be an ok relationship if the cow also genuinely loves that man with similar feelings. otherwise it is abnormal. this is the crux of this whole issue. hope u've understood.

"If priests have abused girls, should we, by the same token, ban heterosexual marriages too? "

Most of them are against boys. We have to ban pedophilia *and* homosexuality. Yes, they have been against girls as well, no doubt. Let's keep in mind that heterosexuality is a natural state.

"If you tell me that a cow can express her love to a man in the same way and form that constitutes marriage then you definitely live in a different society than me"

Tell me, if a guy says that he really does love a cow with all his might, how are you going to know he's not telling the truth? Maybe he really does that. Maybe it's his genetic predisposition to love a cow that way? Oh trust me, some day they will definitely find out that bestiality may have a genetic basis to it as well. Will you support it if that's the case? I bet you do.

rudra prasad upadhya,

great a man can express his love to a cow. Do you think a cow can do the same?

what Psychologists including Freud also say is that a person with 'latent homosexual' feelings tries to supprss it, as he feels that it is wrong. And he tries to defend his ego by acting just the opposite, viz, preaching and lambasting against homosexuality. This is 'reaction formation'. as per this theory, 'gay bashers' are in reality 'repressed and latent homosexuals' who try to bash gays in order to defend their own insecurities about their own sexual orientations. So I think u need to get urself analysed once, to learn more about urself.

"We have to ban pedophilia *and* homosexuality. "

Good luck! The whole world is moving in the direction of giving more room for gays in the law and you seem headed in the opposite direction. If you have a gay kid, (and believe it or not it is genetic), I hope you will not be as fervent about banning homosexuality. Ask macho man Mr Cheney!

"Yes, they have been against girls as well, no doubt. Let's keep in mind that heterosexuality is a natural state. "

Says who? Homesexuality also comes quite naturaly to some people.

"Do you think a cow can do the same"
What if the man claims that the cow really loves him? What about a 9 yr old that professes her love for a 40 yr old? As I said, we're opening a can of worms with this gay marriage BS.


"And he tries to defend his ego by acting just the opposite, viz, preaching and lambasting against homosexuality."

Yeah, now make an ad hominem attack on me. Psychologists of today DO say that pedophilia may have a genetic basis to it. Some day, they may make the case that pedophilia is normal as well. How can you guarantee that they will not make the case? You can't, buddy.

"Homesexuality also comes quite naturaly to some people"

Pedophilia may come naturally to some people as well. Your counterargument will be?

Legal age defined by law.

I have one question about homosexuality. Is it true that there are more homosexuals in country like US because you have more freedom here i.e. they can choose to become gays and lesbians. In country like Nepal, people have no option to become gay which I think is cool because people(mostly teens) don't really wonder and ask "I did such and such ...am I gay?" When I was in Nepal I personally did not know anyone who was gay or lesbian.. Just one concern.. what examples do we set from these homosexuals to the next generation. Should we tell them that it is ok to be gay and choose to be gay (if they like)? I am not against gay/lesbian people but do not support them as well. In Nepal what will law do if two dudes get married, I wont be surprised even if someone marries an animal and get away with it legally...

From : - http://www.bidstrup.com/marriage.htm

The real reasons people oppose gay marriage

So far, we've examined the reasons everyone talks about for opposing gay marriage. Now, let's examine now the real reasons, deep down inside, that people oppose it, hate it, even fear it:

Just not comfortable with the idea. The fact the people aren't comfortable with the idea stems primarily from the fact that for many years, society has promoted the idea that a marriage between members of the same sex is ludicrous, mainly because of the objections raised above. But if those objections don't make sense, neither does the idea that gay marriage is necessarily ludicrous. Societies have long recognized that allowing civil rights to certain groups may offend some, and at times, even the majority. But that is why constitutional government was established -- to ensure that powerless, unpopular minorities are still protected from the tyranny of the majority. Simple discomfort with a proposal is no reasonable basis for not allowing it - how many Southern whites were once uncomfortable with allowing blacks to ride in the front of the bus, or allowing black children to attend the same schools as their own, or drink at the same drinking fountain? Half a century ago, those ideas were just as unthinkable - yet nowadays, hardly anybody sees them as a problem, seeing the fears as nothing more than racism, pure and simple.

It offends everything religion stands for. Whose religion? Many mainstream Christian denominations, to be sure, and definitely most branches of Islam and Orthodox Judaism, but outside those, most religions are unopposed to gay marriage, and many actually favor it. When the Mormon church arrogantly claimed to represent all religions in the Baehr vs. Lewin trial in Hawaii, the principal Buddhist sect in that state made it very clear that the Mormon church didn't represent them, and made it very clear that they support the right of gay couples to marry. That particular Buddhist sect claims many more members in Hawaii than does the Mormon church. In a society that claims to offer religious freedom, the use of the power of the state to enforce private religious sensibilities is an affront to all who would claim the right to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience.

Marriage is a sacred institution. This is, of course, related to the motive above. But it is really subtly different. It's based on the assumption that the state has the responsibility to "sanctify" marriages - a fundamentally religious idea. Here we're dealing with people trying to enforce their religious doctrines on someone else, but by doing it through weakening the separation of church and state, by undermining the Bill of Rights. Not that there's anything new about this, of course. But the attempt itself runs against the grain of everything the First Amendment stands for - one does not truly have freedom of religion if one does not have the right to freedom from religion as well. It would seem to me that anyone who feels that the sanctity of their marriage is threatened by a gay couple down the street having the right to marry, is mighty insecure about their religion and their marriage anyway.

Gay sex is unnatural. This argument, often encoded in the very name of sodomy statutes ("crime against nature"), betrays a considerable ignorance of behavior in the animal kingdom. The fact is that among the approximately 1500 animal species whose behavior has been extensively studied, homosexual behavior in animals has been described in at least 450 of those species. It runs the gamut, too, ranging from occasional displays of affection to life-long pair bonding including sex and even adopting and raising orphans, going so far as the rejection by force of potential heterosexual partners, even when in heat. The reality is that it is so common that it begs an explanation, and sociobiologists have proposed a wide variety of explanations to account for it. The fact that it is so common also means that it clearly has evolutionary significance, which applies as much to humans as it does to other animal species.

Making love to another man betrays everything that is masculine. Well, I've known (and dated) plenty of very masculine gay men in my day, including champion bull-riding rodeo cowboys and a Hell's Angel biker type, who, if you suggested he is a limp-wristed fairy, would likely rip your head off and hand it to you. There was a long-honored tradition of gay relationships among the tough and macho cowboys of the Old West, and many diaries still exist detailing their loving and tender relationships out on the range, and the many sacrifices they made for each other. Plenty of masculine, respected movies stars are gay - indeed, Rock Hudson was considered the very archtype of a masculine man. Came as quite a shock to a lot of macho-men to find out he was gay! So what's wrong with all these kinds of men expressing love for each other? Why is that so horrible about it? A society that devalues love devalues that upon which civilized society itself is based - love and commitment.

The core fear here is the fear of rape and a loss of control or status as a masculine man. This is instinctual and goes right to the core of our being as primates. If you examine what happens in many animal species, especially displays of dominance in other primate species, dominance displays often have sexual overtones. When, for example, in many species of primates, a subordinate male is faced with aggression by a dominant male, the dominant male will bite the subordinate, causing him to squeal in pain, drop the food or the female and present his rump. This is an act of submission, and it is saying to the whole troupe that the subordinate is just that - subordinate.

This happens in humans just as it does in other primates. It is the cause of homosexual rape in prisons. Homosexual intercourse in prisons is not an act of sex as much as it is an expression of dominance and a means of control. Nearly all of the men who aggressively rape other men in a prison setting actually revert to (often promiscuous) heterosexual sex once they're on the outside.

So is this something straight men should fear from gay men? Well, you can relax, all you straight guys. You've nothing to worry about. The vast majority of gay men prefer sex in the same emotional setting most of you do - as a part of the expression of mutual love, affection and commitment. We're not out to rape you or force you into a subordinate position. The majority of gay men don't want sex with you because we're looking for the same thing in a sexual relationship that you look for - the love and affection of a devoted partner. Since we're not likely to get that from you, you're not desirable to us and you have nothing to fear from us. The small minority of us (and it's a very small minority - less than 3%) who do enjoy sex with straight men understand your fears and are not going to have sex with you unless it's clearly and completely understood on both sides to be on a peer-to-peer basis and your requirement for full and complete consent and need for discretion is honored.

The thought of gay sex is repulsive. Well, it will come as some surprise to a lot of heterosexuals to find out that, to a lot of gays, the thought of heterosexual sex is repulsive! But does that mean the discomfort of some gays to heterosexual couples should be a reason to deny heterosexuals the right to marry? I don't think so, even though the thought of a man kissing a woman is rather repulsive to many homosexuals! Well then, why should it work just one way? Besides, the same sexual practices that gays engage in are often engaged in by heterosexual couples anyway - prompting the ever-popular gay T-shirt: "SO-DO-MY -- SO DO MY neighbors, SO DO MY friends."

They might recruit. The fear of recruitment is baseless because it is based on a false premise - that gay people recruit straight people to become gay. We don't. We don't recruit because we know from our own experience that sexual orientation is inborn, and can't be changed. Indeed, the attempts by psychologists, counselors and religious therapy and support groups to change sexual orientation have all uniformly met with failure - the studies that have been done of these attempts at "therapeutic" intervention have never been shown to have any statistically significant results in the manner intended, and most have been shown to have emotionally damaging consequences. So the notion that someone can be changed from straight to gay is just as unlikely. Yet there remains that deep, dark fear that somehow, someone might get "recruited." And that baseless fear is often used by bigots to scare people into opposing gay rights in general, as well as gay marriage.

The core cause of this fear is the result of the fact that many homophobes, including most virulent, violent homophobes are themselves repressed sexually, often with same sex attractions. One of the recent studies done at the University of Georgia among convicted killers of gay men has shown that the overwhelmingly large percentage of them (more than 70%) exhibit sexual arousal when shown scenes of gay sex. The core fear, then, for the homophobe is that he himself might be gay, and might be forced to face that fact. The homophobia can be as internalized as it is externalized - bash the queer and you don't have to worry about being aroused by him.

The opposition to gay marriage stems ultimately from a deep-seated homophobia in American culture, borne out of religious prejudice. While many Americans do not realize that that homophobia exists to the extent that it does, it is a very real part of every gay person's life, just like racism is a very real part of every black person's life. It is there, it is pervasive, and it has far more serious consequences for American society than most Americans realize, not just for gay people, but for society in general.