Hi........this is extension of the earlier thread as this title sees clear than earlier one, please take it easy,

One of my friend has double bachelors degrees ( 4 yrs Pharamcy and 2 yrs Microbiology)+ 5 years work experience as a manufacturing pharmacist+MS degree in pharmacy from Korea (Last semester)+GRE 1140 ( V-430, Q710, A3.5)+Toefl IBT- waiting for results.+ he has submitted 3 research papers in international journals and is waiting for their acceptance.

he wants to do PHD (Pharmaceutics/ industrial pharmacy - his present work) from USA but the problem is that he cannot get recommendation letter from his MS supervisor as he wants him to do his PHD in his lab. This seems very crazy but it is the case here in KOREA and JAPAN. Thus he has to apply with recommendations from his Bachelors professors and employer.

will it be possible to get admission without a recomendation from current supervisor? or it is just foolishness to apply without it?

Kindly suggest as it is very important.

As most of the sajha members are students in US colleges, I hope their suggestion in this regard are very reliable and important.

PLEASE HELP

this is something he personally need to resolve with your professor. Usually the university graduate committee looks for recommendation from thesis supervisor.

In such a situation, you can STOP worrying and focus on doing your best to move ahead.

And that is: Assuming you really want to go to the US for a PhD, honestly and credibly explain why there's no letter from the current supervisor, and leave the rest to the ad com's discretion/decision.

Usually, people who are on ad coms are fairly seasoned folks who are familiar
with all sorts of legitimate and verifiably true problems that applicants run into.

Assuming that the rest of your applications is strong, you just have to take chances, do your best and hope for the best. What have you got to lose?

Good luck.

oohi
ashu

aashu.
thanks.will it be appropriate to mention this problem in the study plan itself or to clarify if they ask for the supervisor's recommendation later?

Well, the gap -- of having no present supervisor's letter in your folder -- will make
them wonder what's going on.

Why give them a chance to wonder about your candidacy?

So fill in the gap by taking an initiative to honestly and credibly explain why.
Keep your explanation brief.

In doing so, do NOT bad-mouth your supervisor, show your gratitude to him, but be positive and talk about newer/fresher yet specific academic/intellectual challenges
you will encounter in the US . . . challenges that are not quite possible in
Korea/Japan for you.

This is the best you can do, under the circumstances, and hope for the best.

oohi
ashu

hi bhandari sir....in which univ. in korea are you doing your MS?

recommendation is not every thing, you can use your undergraduate prof or any other people.

Force your currrent Prof to write reco for you somehow. Indirectly, I mean.

Lodge your applications and all documents except the reco letter. Explain in brief why there is no reco letter from current prof in Korea. Ask the US people to contact directly the Korean prof for his reco for you.

Have some courage. Throw the reco letter form to your Korean prof. and ask him to send it US himself. Tell him whatever he writes about you is acceptable to you with respect. Then you send your all application documents to US and so US will also ask reco at least by Email from Korean Prof.

Make sure you have good reco letters from your undergraduate professors (minimum 2 profs).

If the current Korean prof. writes negative, still US committee woudl be wondering how come the other two rof wrote good ones.... The result will be in your favor.

As far as I know, recommendation letter does play significant role in admission decisions. One of my friend was denied admission for PH D just because she had a negative recommendation from her MS supervisor. The reason was almost similar; her MS supervisor wanted her to continue with her rather than going somewhere else. In her case, the MS supervisor did agree to write reco letter for her but it turned out to be negative one (she knew about it only after she was rejected for the admission on that basis). So, here are the suggestions for you.

Option 1) Don't include the MS supervisor's recommendation letter in the application but do mentntion the reason why you were not able to include reco letter from your MS thesis supervisor. Please don't show negative attitude in the explanation. And, you can include your MS supervisor as one of your referees in the refree-list in your bio-data. The admission committe can contact him directly in case they want to.
Note: In my case, although I had submitted a very good recommendation letter from my MS thesis supervisor, my perspective PH D supervisor had written to my master's thesis supervisor again for verification before making final decision.

Option 2) Just throw a reco form in front of MS supervisor and ask him to write whatever he wants to write (even a negative reco) but do mention in your personal statement that what is the motive of your MS supervisor. (Your MS supervisor wanted you to continue at his lab but because of the wide exposure and cutting edge researches going on in US, you were inspired to go for US uni than the current one.) But you need to have very good reco letters from your UG profs and your company.

This is what I would do.

Since its an unusual case, I would get the offer from the current advisor in some sort of a writing and apply to universities with that affidavit that he has been offered a position in the same lab. I would definitely put the current advisor as a reference, but also would consider the fact that he might not write one or even write a negative recommendation. If he writes a negative recommendations, the affidavit of the offer should recify the foul playing. In order to cover the base of him not writing one, I would have one more reference in the list. But, I would definitely play innocent as long as theres a definite red flag.
I think getting the offer from the present advisor in writing, email or letter, should help to explain the new universities about his situation.

Good luck

HI, THIS I SLUTURE WHO HAD THAT PROBLEM MENTIONED BY KHBHANDARI AND I HONESTLY THAN YOU ALL, FOR GIVING VALUABLE SUGGESTION IN THIS REGARDS.

i have a draft as per your suggestion, especially-----NEPAL KO CHORA, MURKHA 123, ASHU, KINDLY SUGGEST IS IT OK? PLEASE

"At this stage, I would like to mention a very personal fact that I am applying without my current supervisor’s recommendation. Apart from our regular research work in this lab, I and another foreign student are jointly responsible for manuscripts checking and submission on the behalf of professor, regular English correction of theses, posters, and professor’s presentations etc. Thus my supervisor wants me to continue PhD in his lab and honestly declined my request for a recommendation. However, because of the wide exposure and cutting edge researches that are going on in USA- particularly in you university, I am inspired to go for this University than the current one. Although my another request will award me a recommendation letter from my professor, I have doubts about its credibility because of my disobediences to him to continue in his lab. In addition, in a true sense, I am very much sure and apprehensive that another request for a recommendation will definitively have a detrimental effect on my PhD candidacy in my present lab and that will eventually leave me without a PhD degree if my application is declined by your university where I always dreamed to study PhD degree because of the above mentioned reasons. I have submitted all other relevant supportive documents along with my application. I honestly accept and understand the importance of my current supervisor’s recommendation, however, I sincerely request you to kindly understand my apprehensions before making a final decision about my application."

VINCENTBODEGA, NEPAL KO CHORA, MURKHA 123, ASHU.............will you kindly give your email in my email-------poudelkhem@yahoo.com.

Luture,
Please dont get me wrong, if I were you, I would increase the content and the context of your letter. May be Ashuji can help you with this.
Goodluck.

It is very rare case for a supervisor not to write a reccommendation letter. This can only happen if the student has breached some form of committment to him or the student is a real problem. He is not a good supervisor if he is hesitent to furnish a rec letter. I would be more than happy to write a good letter to my own student if he is in very good standing. If you are in a degree program in the US and have some problem with any faculty member in the department, I have seen many aborting the program.

" Ask the US people to contact directly the Korean prof for his reco for you."
THIS IS NOT A GOOD SUGGESTION

Have some courage. Throw the reco letter form to your Korean prof. and ask him to send it US himself. Tell him whatever he writes about you is acceptable to you with respect. Then you send your all application documents to US and so US will also ask reco at least by Email from Korean Prof.
THIS IS NOT GOOD EITHER.


My 2 paisa ko suggestion - just email the US profs and let them know that you cannot get your advisor's reco and give them the reason/s behind it. If you'll let your advisor know about your plans of ditching him he may not take it kindly. What would happen in case you get rejected by all the US universities u've applied to and you have no other option than continue working with your current advisor?

When Khandbari writes "...he has submitted 3 research papers in international journals and is waiting for their acceptance...", the person is not a Masters degree student for sure. Masters student do not require to write journal papers. They usually endup taking course works and a Thesis/Nonthesis option. What this person is trying to do is to discontinue the program in Korea and trying to jump into US PhD. There is no way that he would get a recommendation from Korean Univ.

I applied for a PhD program (about 5 years ago), with 2 recommendations from my bachelor's program professors and a third from en ex-employer, and I got in!

Try with whatever you can get hold of. Afterall, the best shot is what one can give the most.

Luture,

My email address is: ashu at sajha.com
Please use it send stuff to me.

Though I promise you no results/miracles (no one can!), I do promise to give you
my very best Nepali-to-Nepali assistance to help you succeed.

I will be able to get back to you AFTER 5 Nov. '06, if that's OK.

oohi
ashu

Recommendation letters and institute-sealed copies of academic records have always some sort of problems for the applicant, either it be for further education or for the job. The problems in general compound when an applicant has different degrees from different countries, has employed in another country and have had studied in the institution where only one set of original academic records are issued. Usually we get two-three weeks time for detailed application package for the job (where there are several stages of appointment process as in World Bank, UN, ADB; applications --->preliminary sorting ---> detailed application package ---> selection for interviews ---> selection) and we need to complete within the this limited time period.

Somebody argues that the best combination of referees for PhD studies would be master thesis supervisor, undergraduate project supervisor and the longest-duration employer if any (we can drop one of the last two when the university requires only two referees), for job application after PhD degree would be PhD dissertation supervisor, current employer if any and master thesis supervisor (we can drop one of the last two when only two referees are required) and for master course would not matter much who the referees are given the recommenders give good write-ups. However, the combination of referees also depends on the type of job. There is always a problem for a recommendation letter from the current employer. When you are performing well at your current employment, the boss hesitates to recommend you because you are planning to leave him/her and if you are not doing well, the probability of getting a good recommendation from the boss is very low except few who really are nice.

As khbhandari experienced, the recommendation letter from non-English spoken professors are multi folds. First, they do not want to recommend to English-spoken professor due to their poor English ability and also a long slot of time they require to write it up. They really hate multiple recommendations. In fact, the English competency in a recommendation letter does not matter much. Surprisingly, they recommend very well in their native language, if translated from translation professionals. Some professors even ask applicant to write a recommendation letter on behalf of him or her. This is the most disturbing thing we have to do sometimes. Third, when he or she wants the applicant stay at his/her lab, they try not to recommend. However, if they recommend, they usually do a good job because you are the one who has satisfied him or her in academic achievements. Fourth, if you are currently employed with the help of a professor and you want to change the job, it is almost impossible to get the recommendation letter from him or her. The best way is to convenience him or her supported by a set of logical and professional reasons. Some professors even suggest that the job is not suitable for you or you do not qualify for the job, if he/she does not want to recommend or does not have time to recommend. In this case, it is better to change referee.

Some professors are so nice that they are always there at any time to recommend you! We must be lucky enough to get such advisors.

The institute-sealed copies of academic records is also a major problem. When the institute does not issue multiple copies, we have to certify them by the concerned issuing authority which usually requires physical presence. Some institute require applicant's physical presence or a representative. Some accept credit cards for the processing fee and some does not.

Based on my personal experience, we have to have a list of at least 7 or 8 referees, pooled when required, for two or more job applications within a year's time.

Oh! it's too long

उ हु हु हु...... लौ न नि मैले हाँसो थाम्न सकिन । गुहार गुहार !